hey guy's
not real sure about this cross bb ethics thing but bruce from that other major board went way out of his way to get first hand pic's of the tribal wasting of salmon in nets after a chum pile was disclosed at clark creek and the puyallup
while many attempted to capture the evidence on film for future reference the candid camera frames taken here are priceless
so sorry if i cross any lines here bob
bruce gave permission if proper credit was given
http://www.gamefishin.com/gfboard/forum_posts.asp?TID=10575&PN=1&TPN=1

the series of pic's are priceless
again
sorry bob but the pic's need to be aired:)

Peace Pipe

Yep...Salmon's obviously not the only thing getting wasted.....wow..that was huge shock...not.. KInd of like the old Ma BEll saying..."We dont care, we don't have to"

No problem fuzzy, unlike a few others, I did grow up (for the most part) years ago

Well I have been accused on here before of tribal bashing but looks like a picture is worth a thousand words.

I have sent those pic's too WDFW Fish Program.

Mostly they are just piled on the bank, see this crap every year.

THis was just posted in the thread from new member Tribal15....

"These photos were extremely helpful. If any more crimes occur on the river, please contact Puyallup Tribal Police at 253-680-5656.

In this case, a suspect was found, a report was filed with the Tribal Prosecutor on the charges of Wanton Disregard for Fish.

Thank you for your help."

I'm right here, Aunty. Sorry I could not jump on this sooner but like everyone else, I have to work for a living. But, as you can see, there are folks that are getting this information to the right jurisdictions... which is what I would have recommended. I do know some folks at the Puyallup Tribe that would be interested in seeing these pics. Given the proper information enforcement actions can, and I hope in this instance do, happen.

I saw the same thing happen this last weekend on the Skagit. We watched some indians netting the river in the Lyman area. Every fish they got they took the eggs out and threw the rest of the fish away. So much for the indians being so environmentaly friendly and making use of every animal part as we were taugh in school. What a bunch of S**T!

The Wauna boat launch had hundreds of dead kings by it awhile back. I was cruising over the massive pile of a few hundred fish and stewing a little over it. What really bothered me were the dozen or so nice SeaRun Cutthroat I saw in the pile and the fact that all of the males were clean. Only the females were cut open in the belly. I hope those pics make it onto King5 or Komo4 sometime soon!

CF

The Skoks got huge bucks to do what they should have done on their own. Looks like the other tribes like Muckleshoots for example should maybe change their ways. Don't count on it. Greed is the creed on the rez these days. Notice that it looks like kids fishing the Puyallup...Maybe mom and dad keep the $2000 per member and the kids need to fish for eggs to buy dope and whiskey? Here is the info on the Norm Dicks program to help stop wastage (dumping) of Chums in Hood Canal.

News From
Congressman Norm Dicks
2467 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
(202) 225-5916 http//www.house.gov/dicks

For Release: September 16, 2004
FISHERY AGREEMENT TO BOOST
OXYGEN LEVELS IN HOOD CANAL

SEATTLE , WA , Sept. 16 – A joint project between the Skokomish Tribe and a local fish processing firm will help remove chum carcasses from oxygen-starved Hood Canal during tribal salmon fisheries this fall, U.S. Rep. Norm Dicks said Thursday.

Under the agreement, the Tribe has amended its law to prohibit the disposal of the chum carcasses into Hood Canal. Instead they will be obtained by a Bellingham-based firm, American-Canadian Fisheries Inc. Federal funds distributed by the state’s Puget Sound Action Team will support a tribal education and enforcement program that will assure that the goals of the agreement are reached, Rep. Dicks said.

Rep. Dicks, the ranking Democratic member of the House Interior Appropriations Subcommittee, has secured a total of $850,000 in the current fiscal year and he is awaiting final approval for another $1.95 million in the next fiscal year in federal funding to assist the joint research effort into the oxygen depletion problem in Hood Canal.

In recent years, low levels of oxygen in Hood Canal have led to a dramatic decline in populations of fish, shellfish and invertebrate species – particularly in the lower portions of the 80-mile long canal where water circulation is limited. One of the contributing factors has been the depositing of fish carcasses (after salmon eggs have been harvested) back into the canal. Carcasses consume oxygen when they decompose, contributing to the low oxygen levels in Hood Canal, the congressman said. Other major causes include septic systems, agricultural and storm-water runoff.

Adding nutrients in the form of carcasses into ecosystems is a standard enhancement practice in natural resource management. Plants, insects, wildlife and even other fish benefit from the nutrients that the carcasses provide as they decompose. Hood Canal, however, is desperately starved for the oxygen required for carcasses to break down because most of the oxygen is used to dissolve the high levels of nutrients deposited by septic systems from homes lining Hood Canal.

“This is a significant and farsighted decision by the Skokomish Tribe that will make a substantial contribution to the overall health of the Hood Canal ecosystem,” Rep. Dicks said. “It is one of several fundamental strategies that we must adopt in order to sustain this resource well into the future, and it’s an incremental step we can take right now, while we are seeking additional solutions to the problems affecting the condition of Puget Sound,” he said.

Representatives of the Skokomish Tribe stressed the tribe’s awareness of the problem and its sense of responsibility that has prompted the change in tribal laws. “The tribe is very concerned about the low oxygen problem, and we are going to step up and do what we can to resolve this issue,” said Dave Herrera, fisheries director for the Skokomish Tribe.

Michael Turner, of American-Canadian Fisheries Inc., said his firm’s President, Andy Vitaljic – an innovator in seafood and roe production -- has been working with the Columbia River tribal fishery as well as state and federal salmon hatcheries throughout the Northwest since 1970. In recent years it has developed cooperative arrangements with local food banks in Washington, Oregon and California. “As a company, we target full utilization of the fish. The Skokomish cultural heritage dictates the same; we are looking forward to working closely with the Tribal fishermen in this strategic effort to address the oxygen deprivation problem in the lower canal area. With the Tribe’s cooperation, I am confident we can make a great improvement in the ability of Hood Canal to support an ecologically sound salmon fishery,” Turner said.

What???? Their cultural heritage dictates that they don't waste the fish but it took almost $3 million to jog their memory about their "cultural heritage"

Why the hell doesn't PETA go after the Tribes for these practices. If simply fishing for and eating of can get this reaction from them, imagine watching Natives bonking thousands of fish, then chucking all the dead bucks and eggless hens back on the bank.

Not anything I've never seen before.......

Dozens of times. :rolleyes:

Lecture? Not sure about that, but use your own words I guess.

I would repeat, however, that the "broad brush" is a dangerous weapon. I would no sooner suggest that all Indian fishers waste chum salmon carcasses than I would suggest that all sports fishers are snaggers, or flossers or whatever description you would like to use.

Not all tribes fish for chum and not all tribes allow their fishers to harvest just the eggs.

Also, simply complaining about what is seen is not enough. Contacting the proper authorities is always the best approach, even if that broad brush of "those Indian police never do anything" is waving in one hand... you still have the other to look up the appropriate phone number and dial. But that is just a suggestion.

And now the damage control begins an actual Pew Native has joined to get the facts out. :rolleyes:

How do egg gutted fish laying in the bottom of the river get counted toward the quota??

What quota?

"How do egg gutted fish laying in the bottom of the river get counted toward the quota??"


shhhh!!
you wern't supposed to notice

EXACTLY!!!

(for those who have viewed the pictures)

Have you ever gutted a thousand salmon...............on weed?

Like I said...the young tribal members are out fishing for eggs so they can scare up enough dough for more WEED!!!....Can't drink Jack Daniels back at the rez but WEED is ok. Mom and dad are back home spending their casino money they get every month while junior and his friends are keeping their fishing tradition alive ON WEED>

What's to criticize?>>>>

I don't want to be too judgemental here so if anyone has a case they can site that is verifiable where notifying tribal enforcement has actually resulted in any kind of punishment for what we are talking about here I am all ears.

Someone in the know challenged what I said about the Skoks getting three million dollars...I really did not say that but may have implied it. Actually the $3 million includes $850,000 for the Skoks to nudge them to do the right thing with the Chum carcasses . The rest of the money I think will go to studying the oxygen depletion problem in Hood Canal. My point was that the tribes should not brag about their cultural heritage if it takes a big sack of money to get them to do the right thing. Something they should have been doing all along if they gave a rip about anything other than money in their pockets.

By the way . why are we spending so much to raise all these chums anyway?

Um, actually, it does not cost much to raise chum salmon at a salmon hatchery... probably the least expensive species to produce from a typical fish culture facility.

"Um, actually, it does not cost much to raise chum salmon at a salmon hatchery... probably the least expensive species to produce from a typical fish culture facility."

least is kinda vague to me
how much exactly is U.S. dollars per fish returned would be my question followed with who exactly harvests how many of those fish and what exactly was the cost per harvested fish per person paying for those fish

uhmm
are they like $2 each? or $200
etc. etc.....

Well I'm glad we are getting our moneys worth...looks like those young bucks appreciate what we are allowing them to do too.

Just wondering after reading this post, How many of the probably thousands of fish that are stripped of eggs and thrown back into the water By all of the various Tribes in the State are added to the native quota?
My guess is probably none.
Hmmmm Wonder what the real so called 50% allocation is? My guess? 75% Indian 15% commercial nets 10% Sports fishermen.
By the way The Sporties pay the most for the fish. Sound fair?
Ramprat

By the way I am not Talking about just chum Salmon here!
Ramprat

Take PNW's sage advise and contact the tribes..They are upstanding and honest and will be glad to fill you in on their catch records which , as PNW swears, are reported with the same accuracy as the non tribal commercials. They have nothing to hide.....well..except their pot.

Pacific I,m not really sure what you mean by this. Does this mean that the rearing pens are cheaper for Chums than say Chinook for example or maybe the Employees get paid less per hour Because they are raising just Chums.
Survivability rate?
Please explain to me why Chums are cheaper to rear than say Steelhead, Chinook, or Coho.
Thanx Ramprat

Ramprat - Chum migrate to the Salt almost immediately upon hatching as do Pinks. That's probably what they meant.

i clicked on the link and saw no photos

Ramprat,

While hatchery costs do vary, one of the last good figures I heard for WDFW hatcheries was about $6 per pound of fish raised. Chum salmon are often reared to 400 fish per pound, if not smaller, while steelhead are raised to 6/lb., chinook 90/lb., coho 15/lb. The smolt to adult survival rate varies, usually according to size of smolts at release, and by species. One half of one percent to recruitment would be very good for chum, about the same or a little higher for chinook, about 7% for coho, altho higher in HC as I recall, and 2-3% for steelhead. So you can see that WDFW can raise a lot of chums for not so much money.

The real question is, why bother raising hatchery chum in HC at all? Natural production of chum is good. The commercial value of chum is low, and as we are seeing, the value is primarily in the roe. Why should public funds be expended to subsidize a roe fishery? Might the public interest be better served by just letting those low value chums run up their rivers and spawn and fertilize aquatic ecosystems, benefitting other species, including ones with greater social value?

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Thanks Salmo I agree! Why Raise so many chums just so the Indians can strip the eggs and dump the carcasses using our tax dollars.
Ramprat

Don't blame this one all on the tribes . There were some huge Alaska seiners swarming all over the Chums in HC a couple of weeks ago. They make their money in Alaska and fish here for gas money.

The link takes you to page 2. Go to the bottom of the page and hit the back page button. You will find the photos.

Steve